Dragon Age Central

Quote: Posted 06/07/04 21:53:28 (GMT) by 3lb3r3th

Quote: Posted 06/07/04 20:53:20 (GMT) by Brenon Holmes
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Nothing would give me more pleasure than to tell you all my personal thoughts on when the game might be released... ^
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That is a bad omen, lol.

hehe, chalk it up to a turn of phrase. Might - because even my predictions would be either too cynical or too optimistic.

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They're doing it in Jade Empire, so why not?

Jade Empire is a completely different game. It works differently as well, DA will be a rules bound game. There will a rule that determines whether or not you hit your opponent. This is not the case in Jade.

In Jade you hit the kick button (like you do in a fighting game) and your character kicks, if something is in the way then it is hit (there is some resolution for special abilities, guards and whatnot - but that doesn't really matter for the context of this discussion).

In NWN, we had a representative system - meaning that we actually modeled the combat system on swings, one swing was one attack roll. This translated fairly well... though we did end up with some odd circumstances.

As an aside, it's much easier to think of hit points in DnD as vitality (stamina/energy) instead of a straight health attribute.

Star Wars on the other hand was not a representative system, though you have to look fairly closely to notice it . In SW, the combat sequences just happened and the rules gradually reduced your hit points as you fought and your opponent 'hit'...

As for what we'll be doing in DA, well that's still up in the air (officially ).

In regards to parrying systems - in NWN, parry was more supposed to be a defensive fighting mode where you're concentrating more on parrying than attacking, but things got a bit garbled in there somewhere.

One thing to consider, in reality most fights are full of parries, blocks and voids (evasions, either moving out of range, or moving your body [body voiding]).

Consider other games that have a representative combat system. Meaning:

1 swing = 1 attack roll = 1 damage roll (or something thereabouts)

In a representative system, what is better? A hit heavy system where you slowly whittle your foe down or a parry/block/dodge heavy system with very few hits? Or some kind of hybrid of the two? Or perhaps something else altogether?

Also, what do you prefer? A representative system (1 sword swing = your attack) or a non-representative system (the rules are divorced from the animations you see on screen).

Before you jump to answering though, consider a couple things.

* As gamers/players, we like to see our characters succeed... in combat this translates to progress against an enemy we're fighting. Meaning if I'm fighting big uber boss guy, I better be doing damage or at least have some way of measuring if I'm 'winning' or not.

* Representative systems would seem to work better with games with vitality levels (like WoD or 7th Sea). Since the hits that do get through can be quite serious (even fatal), as in those systems everyone is equally mortal (to one extent or another).

Disclaimer: Nothing in the above text is indicative of what Dragon Age will be like, this is purely discussion.

#NaN

(Sorry, geek humor )

On a slightly more serious note, because the above isn't very useful. I will quote the following words which should be very familiar to you:

'The game will be done when it's done.'

Nothing would give me more pleasure than to tell you all my personal thoughts on when the game might be released... however, you can understand that that sort of thing would most likely be taken as gospel, misquoted and twisted until things were 'out of hand'.

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Err... why? If the two balls are rolled down the same stairs with the same force, they should land in exactly the same position. It's just a few calculations, and I can't think of any reasons that the numbers within each calculation would be different on different machines.

They should...
However in a multiplayer game every client has a slightly different view of the world and in an extended physics simulation, compounded differences can generate extremely different results.

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Assuming the [likely] possibility of me being wrong above, what is wrong with running this code on the server?

The amount of data that we'd need to send down to accurately represent the simulation would be... painful...

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Physics is just the rules system that governs the real world...

Yes... but the entire game doesn't run on that system, making the unification of both systems understatedly complex.

Edited By Brenon Holmes on 05/31/04 18:25

Again, just to explain... in another thread I mentioned that physics aren't normally deterministic. To expound on that... what I mean is that if you run two physics simulations on two different machines, say rolling a ball down some stairs... the ball will not roll the same way on each machine and will most likely end up in different positions.

So if you're flipping a table for example, the destination has to be an absolute fixed position if that table has any effect on the game state (hiding, LOS, etc...), because we want all clients to have the same view of the game. Otherwise things get wacky... and for us to have an absolute fixed position, we're either running simulations on the server - or we're not using true physics for the simulation.

In terms of interacting with the environment, the sorts of things mentioned here work lovely for FPS style games where you can arbitrarily interact with your environment... like shooting your gun at some fruit on a stand and watch them roll around. Or kick random things, like crates or boxes and watch them react.

How would that work with a 3rd person party based control scheme? Additionally, consider that this is a rules based game... if someone takes damage there has to be a rule system governing the outcome.

Edited By Brenon Holmes on 05/31/04 16:54

I'm kind of curious... assuming there was a physics engine, what exactly would you use it for?

Now keep in mind that you can't use physics for something that affects the actual game state unless the simulation is run on the server (which isn't likely).

Additionally, remember the style of gameplay. You're controlling a party of characters in one of two view modes... tactical (overhead view), or explore (behind the head).

Cloth and Hair simulators have already been mentioned, and as an aside do not require a full physics engine. That would be like hitting a finishing nail with a wrecking ball...

Yeah! Show me!

I'll take a peek at it Sancus, but since I don't have it on hand right now (and I can't seem to find the information on any news sites)...

How does the control scheme work while flying? Is it first person? Or does it play more like Freedom Force style flying (3rd person, static 'flying' height')?

Edited By Brenon Holmes on 05/24/04 01:22

As it currently stands, you will create the main character... other NPC's you meet as you adventure may join at your discretion.

As to whether or not you'll be able to create your own full party, stay tuned for details.

Regarding copyright protection... a lot of publishing studios are now requiring certain forms of protection... and this isn't necessarily a bad thing.

The main idea (as was mentioned) is simply to make it difficult for the average person to copy the game... ie: Rusty McFinger shouldn't be able to pop a game in his burner, hit the 'copy' button and give one to his friend Steve.

Yes, there are cracks for every major game that comes out... heck, if they're popular there's usually something out within a day (at most) of release.

On the whole, I'm sure none of us (as gamers) enjoy the various methods that are used to secure a game from being copied, as in some cases they have some adverse side effects. However, as Georg mentioned... discussing copyright protection at this stage really isn't that useful.

* Negotiating encryption/protection schemes for the CD/DVD release are still quite a ways out (we still need a publisher )

* We already know how our users feel about it. It really really sucks when you can't play a game because of copyright protection.

* Copyright protection of some sort is a necessary evil. In an ideal world where we didn't have to worry about piracy, it probably wouldn't exist.

Edited By Brenon Holmes on 05/23/04 11:41

I'm sure Georg simply mis-typed... he probably meant 'months'.

*covers up the conspiracy*

Let's keep the discussion civil folks... we're all friends here... aren't we?

Just a note:

Dragon Age is not a massively multiplayer game.

The current plan is for an extensive Single Player campaign and a seperate multiplayer campaign with the same core story elements, only optimised for multiplayer.

Edited By Brenon Holmes on 05/23/04 03:55

One of the main issues with physics are that they are not normally deterministic in a multiplayer environment. Because clients can get out of sync and we normally don't trust the client completely, we'd have to run physics simulations on the server (our trusted source) and push data down to the client, which would be bad.

Now it's true you could probably have certain items that we don't care about, ambient fluff and objects you can't interact with, such as debris on the ground or something like that react to blasts and other forces... however, for things of this sort the simulation could probably be done without the use of a physics engine.

We haven't ruled out using a physics engine for certain applications... but if I had to guess, I'd say most likely you won't see any iteration of such a beast in DA.

As for glitzy new graphical features in the engine, I occasionally like to pop across the hall to the graphics team offices and see what they're up to... a lot of the features being added are 'very purdy'.

Edited By Brenon Holmes on 05/23/04 03:37

Just some official information:

* There will be a Single Player campaign, the scope of which will be quite large.

* There will be a separate Multi-player campaign with the same core story as the single player campaign, only
optimised for the multiplayer experience.

* Dragon Age is not a massively multiplayer game.

* There will be a GM client.

As for adding support for PW's, exactly as Tarmack has stated... If you can think of some feature(s) that will benefit the community as a whole, please feel free to suggest away! We will take all reasonable requests/suggestions into consideration.

Edited By Brenon Holmes on 05/23/04 03:07